If you want to take some pictures of the exterior, once you're finished in here, you should go across to the far side of the road, and up the fire escape on the front of the Nat West building. You can get a really good shot of the church with the Gherkin right behind it. I've taken that shot myself, a couple of times. It's rather striking. I suppose you could say it's a contrast between God and Mammon. I know that's an old-fashioned bit of language.

Don't you ever get people complaining?

He stares at me.

In what respect?

Ivan likes to play devil's advocate.

Does he? Does he? Aha. Well, that's all right, that's all right - we're not afraid of questions here.

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